by “Christian Dan” Borrello,posted Dec 15 2008 9:05PM
All right, so I haven't written here in a while, so here's what I'm going to do.
As often as possible, I'm going to provide proof that The Bible is real, authentic, and the Word of God.
Here's Lesson One:
"He (God) stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."
Long before Galileo, Columbus, or the Hubble Telescope, God (via Job) declared the earth round and suspended in space.
Evolutionists may mock this passage from Job, however, the book is the oldest in the Bible recorded about 1520 BC.
Dan, please post your Top 25 people of 2008. Some of us would love to read them - not all of us are friends of yours on facebook.
Assuming that this is an accurate translation from a genuine ancient source (BIG assumtion); it only proves that Job knew the earth was round and suspended in space.
The problem with this as "proof" that the Bible is true is that only the Christians ever proclaimed that the earth was flat in the first place (based on evidence in Genesis). Prior to the "Dark Ages" all of the major civilizations understood that the earth was a sphere in space. The pre-dynastic Egyptians had already calculated the volume of the earth, the sun and other heavenly bodies. The Olmec, Aztec and Mayans knew about the orbit of earth around the sun (Which Christians denied for centuries)and the effects of axial precession.
Like most of the "proofs" of God's existence; your logic is flawed in that you pre-suppose God's existence as a default in the absence of knowledge in order to conclude God's existence. That's nothing but circular logic.
Darryl in PY
Nothing in the passage you quote says the earth is round. Maybe there is more than what you posted.
Are the Popes communicating with God? If so, why did the Catholic church persecute scientists like Galileo who stated that the Earth revolves around the sun, and that Earth is not the center of the Universe?
You must understand that cherry-picking sentences from a centuries-old text that has been altered by multiple translations is hardly proof of anything.
I don't knock Christians for having faith (Faith- the belief in that which has no evidence or proof) but I do knock attempts to justify their faith with tenuous linkages between science and the Bible.
That's fair. But me say this:
The Pope is never mentioned or endorsed in the Bible. In fact, you'll never find the word "Pope" anywhere. So what the Pope and the Catholics tried to pull during the dark ages has as little to do with the Bible and what was written in Job as fish fries on Fridays.
The Pope is just a man like anyone else. Not God on Earth. He has no pull, say, or strings with God. Peter was NOT the first pope like most Catholics have been taught for ages. In fact, evidence suggests Simon Peter was crucified upside down after watching his wife get crucified herself. He reportedly said he was not "worthy" to be crucified like Christ.
Is that Bible? No. Is there concrete evidence of that? No.
But neither is the idea of a Pope.
And in all fairness, this was only one "proof." I would never base anything, even my faith, on just one thing.
Great insight, though, Darryl. I appreciate your reading and your comments. :-)
I will post the Top 25... :-)
To your first point: Yes, the Bible is written thanks to manuscripts of Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek that were copies of copies of copies of copies. Yes, there are NO originals. That would be like Moses taking this morning's D&C and passing it to 100,000 people to read. The thing would never make it that far.
People made copies of each book of the Bible, and then made copies of the copies, etc.
HOWEVER, the one thing you can't dispute about the Bible is that of all the religions of the world, which include Hinduism which is supposedly the "oldest", the Bible has over 25,000 pieces of manuscript evidence that is 95% in-tune with the King James Bible. The NEXT CLOSEST MANUSCRIPT in history with any semblance of that type of evidence is Homer's "The Iliad and the Odyssey" with ONLY 800 or so pieces of manuscript evidence.
Secondly, guys like Martin Luther fought those supposed "Christians" who denied the Earth was round. Please don't confuse Christianity and Catholicism. I agree with Tom Mule on one thing: the Catholic church has helped kill the name of Christianity. I'm not knocking Catholics, but there's a big reason why people are leaving the church in droves.
Two, as I mentioned above to Darryl, I should use the word "evidence" instead of "proof." When you get up at 2:30 am every day your mind tends to slip when you write a blog.
Yes, the Egyptians, Mayans and Aztecs had those thoughts. So did Job. In the middle east with no connection really to the rest of the world.
Did the Egyptians have this thought first, or did Job? Job is the oldest book in the Bible, but we don't know who influenced who. At the same time, there's also the possibility that they each came up with this idea on their own. Seeing how the Mayans and Aztecs had no contact with Egypt, clearly they came up with the idea in their own respects.
As far as the existence of God goes, here's a scenario for you: two trucks are heading down an icy road during another Rochester winter. One truck has microphones, cords, desks, tables, chairs, couches and broadcast boards. Another has bricks, insulation, carpets, paint, dry wall, windows, doors, door handles, and everything else you need to build the JK Hunt building. One of the trucks slides and crashes into the other and BANG all the pieces miraculously came together like a building with studios, offices, phones and broadcast equipment all come together in perfect order and a radio station is built.
Sounds ridiculous, doesn't it?
So does the Big Bang theory.
Darryl in PY
Hey Dan- Regarding your last full paragraph above, with the two trucks laden with construction equipment on a collision course...
I used to live in the Middle East. One day I read in the Saudi Gazette about a Bedou tribal elder who was making his first plane ride from the east side of the Kingdom to the west side. Upon landing, he refused to get off the jet because he could not comprehend the journey that by camel took several days only lasting 90 minutes by air. His son had to board the plane to convince him that he was indeed several hundred miles from his starting point. The argument that if something sounds unlikely, therefore it must be untrue, doesn't stand up.
Approaching your paragraph from another perspective,it seems you equate the accidental assembly of a radio station resulting from a road accident to the Big Bang and the creation of our known universe, including Earth and humanity. This is a self-limiting prospect, as Man would not be able to question the event if the event had not resulted in his creation. And by creation, I mean evolution, of course. In fact, the instant assemblage of the radio station would need to be accomplished by a higher power, using intelligent design. As you have pointed out, that sounds ridiculous.
I don't know where you come up with your 95% figure in regards to the King James Bible but that is an english document with NO manuscripts. The King James is an english translation of the Guttenburg Bible which was a German Print translation of the Latin Vulgate which was a translation from about 100 Greek manuscripts. The Greek manuscripts (which are the closest thing we have to originals) have about 400,000 documented variants and it's estimated that there are actually over 1mm variants. That's just looking at the books which make up today's Bible and ignoring all of the texts which were tossed out by the Church.
They had to invent the discipline of "Textual Criticism" in order to try and work out what texts are the closest to the original. Only the Catholic and Mormon Churches even attempt to address this problem with the Bible. The rest of Christianity (in particular Evangelicals) simply ignore it.